Hawshiels

Shortly after each release of the game (going back for some time now) I have been on these forums complaining about the reality factor of the match engine and how the associated tactics sliders work. And for the sake of clarity, let me say that I still don't think the engine is anywhere near perfect.

What age has taught me however is to stop, think, compose myself, and get some evidence to support my claims.

In my opinion, this version is the best yet (post patch obviously), but I still got the feeling in a game that "silly" things were happening that wouldn't normally happen.

Examples:

1. Defenders kicking the ball out even with no pressure from opposition
2. Forwards missing lots of easy chances
3. Good midfielders gifting the ball to the opposition on numerous occassions.

So, I decided to look at the stats in real life games. What I found is that the real life stats do support the stats in the game. But for some reason I just couldn't accept that this was right somehow (it was just a feeling). So, taking the examples above I decided to see how and when this happens in a real game. Here's what I found :-

1. Defenders (even great ones) DID hit the ball out of play but not because they are bad passers of the ball, but because the pass to them did not allow them to control the ball before passing.

2. Forwards (even great ones) tended to miss lots of chances (many more than I appreciated happened) but usually because they tried to take the ball on the volley or when it was between their feet, or when they were't directly facing the goal - especially when heading the ball.

3. Midfielders often give possession away, but again not because they are bad players, but usually because : a) a player they were going to pass to has made a run and then pulled out, b) a player has given them a bad pass and they can't control it well before passing on, or c) they passed the ball too hard and it goes past their own player (happened more than I thought in a game).

Anyway, after all of this I had a thought. The reason I couldn't accept these things happening in the game is because the 2D match engine wasn't clear enough in demonstrating why the chances were being missed, or why the passes were being misplaced, etc. If I had been watching a real game I would appreciate the reasons for this happening.

So, my conclusion is:

1. I still think the match engine needs refinement but can accept that this will take a few more releases before SI can get it as good as technically possible.

2. It is hard to really appreciate what is happening when looking at the game in 2D only. The lack of clarity from the 2D engine causes most of the feelings of "unacceptability" (in my case anyway), but unless I want the game to move to a 3D view (which I'm not sure I do), I'll just have to live with it. Perhaps I need a better imagination when watching the game in 2D, but it's difficult to do this when looking at circles with numbers on them :-)

3. Looking at the match commentary, I believe there is something that could be done to help. In the situations where the player has missed an opportunity it says "he has his head in his hands" or "he really should have scored". But is this the case? Is there anything in the engine that can help make it clear to the commentary (I'm not very technical as you can tell) section that actually it was a difficult chance and that's why he missed it or "poor ball by midfielder X and this is why striker Y missed it".

I don't know if this gives any help to anyone but I offer it as a catalyst to discussion.

- Would it help if the game had a 3D view?

- Can the commentary sometimes cause the feelings of "that is ridiculous and would never happen in real life"

- Should I get a life ?


p.s. I based the stats on games I watched of teams from France, Germany, Scotland and Portugal along with some champions league games. I don't see a lot of English Premier games so I don't know what the stats show there.

skanky

i've had times where my team has had a shot, the keeper has parried it to the side and its sitting on the side of the pitch, where at that point my striker runs in try and to pounce on it.

inevitably instead of crossing it or passing back, the striker tries to take a quick snap shot from that angle, which is never in any danger of going anywhere near the goal, let alone in and i get the classic "how did he miss that! he hangs his head in shame" commentary quote.

also there is the ridiculous "he misses when it was easier to score" quote. it just sounds ridiculous and gets on my nerves.

azozag

I have noticed it too, as stanky said. I think that game "judges" what the commentary will say, based on how close the post is, how many players are around the attacker and so on. I think that the commentary has to be reworked, although i cant see that happening, cause i feel it is based on the 2d match engine itself; so as we cant distinguish e.g. how the attacker receives the ball, also the commentary engine cant. Of course i dont know how it works but i made a hypothesis

come on ragusa!

azozag has a point, I think the commentary is simply behind the match engine. At times things seem to me like they are already pre-determined what will happen.

For example there are certain scenarios where you are watching the game and you have seen the process before, you look and think, he's going to miss this, or...my keeper is going to make a clanger here. AND IT HAPPENS! Sometimes you can predict what will happen in the game and this confuses me as surely the match engine should be unpredictable and real to life. Or are all the highlights simply laid out before you start the game and the result already predicted before the match engine begins. Sometimes i feel that i can predict a result, especially if i am a massive underdog/massive favourite for a game.

LSS

For your 2. point it should also be noted that the forwards in FM usually get more easy chances than the forwards in real life (in my opinion, could be false). Thus, more misses are needed to keep the results realistic. And this makes it seem that the forwards are crap and the goalies are gods.

I think the amount of shots and 'easy chances' in FM is generally too high and should be toned town. At the same time finishing from the easy chances should be made easier.

azozag

Well i think we are all right, but we should also take into consideration how difficult is to implement the random factor of football into a game that uses AI. Having studied AI myself it all comes down to a huge tree with almost infinite branches. Each of them can result in a situation we see in the match engine. So thats why there is the feeling of the "predefined" imho. By the way i think that the 8.01 version has the best match engine of all the fm series.

azozag

Apart from that we may have to watch a full real game form the "upper" view (2d) in order to see the differences with the match engine. The standard camera prevents you (imo) from having a complete view of the teams position as a whole and you need to be a real manager to anticipate the formation of your team as you see the match. I remember having read that luis van gal when he was in barcelona had four people in the four highest corners at the stands reporting him about how the team looks from there.

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3D view? No, not yet.

Should the commentary be improved to help determine more precisely why, for example, a striker missed - Yes, absolutely.

Gat a life? Dont berate yourself for spending time playing a video game, and taking an interest in improving it. If you enjoy something then its not a waste of time.

robzilla

Get thee to a bookmakers I say..

come on ragusa!

Get thee to a bookmakers I say.. </BLOCKQUOTE>

HA! If only the bookies would accept bets on FM