retired_lydia shalaby

Hey all, am back, thanks for the great previous posts, and since you were so helpful prior i have decided to come back and bug you some more.

Just an update, I got into the premier division, but i promptly got bounced back down after that season. So back in the championship league I went, but this time i have a higher transfer budget, and more salary space, and also i have learned a bit more. From watching the games, i think my problem has been in my Mid section, i dont feel as if they have been able to push the ball up good enough, and keep it up there in order to get a good shot on the goal. I think my D is rock solid, and my three strikers are decent enough, just they need to score more. The maddening part about the last season, and I am kicking myself, is that about 5 games left, i got the bright idea to figure out the opponents weakness on Defense, and then I set the match tactics to attack that side via passing that way. It worked on a couple of games, i just wish i had done so earlier, since I am sure that would have saved me from relegation. Ah well lesson learned. Anyway, am in the transfer window with about 9 million in my pocket, and eager to strengthen my squad.

Ok so where was I, ah yes the questions.

1. Feeder club - I am determined to get a Belgium feeder club. My reasoning is that if i find a good prospect i will be able to groom him there. How can I get one in that country? Or rather how can i get an international feeder club, that will allow me to get those prospects back in england in a few years time. I figure that it depends upon my clubs reputation being higher internationally. So i think what i am going to do, is at the end of next season, is that I will do a tour of that country, and try to play all a few friendlies there, and in the other EU countries. Do you think this will have a positive effect on it. Or do i have to wait until i am in the premier league a couple of seasons to do this. This offseason, i managed to do a mini tour of belgium (all the other matches had been arranged so I couldnt do it too long). I only seem to be offered feeder clubs that are in England.

2. This also goes back on the work permit thing. I got a player from a transfer last season, and it seemed as if he got his work permit that season, but now i cant renew him because he is being denied a work permit. He seemed to be a quality prospect as well. Kind of irritating. He is a 20 year old canadian midfielder, and I think i got him from scotland.

3. how can I find free agents. Or rather players who are eligible for me to nab em without paying the transfer fee. The reason am asking this is that I do the player search, and i chose "contract is expired", yet when i look on the players information, i see things that say on loan till June 30 2009, or on contract...something to that effect. And I do not choose contract is EXPIRING, i choose the EXPIRED one. Kind of puzzling.

4. Any tips that you use when you are scouting or looking for free agents, or anything of that nature. I am in the early parts of the Summer transfer window, and I am determined to build my squad not only for this year, but also so I can stave off relegation next year.

5, Oh another thing, just struck me....whats the best way to get rid of players. I want to build up somoe cash in my transfer purse...so i can get a few more players. I have listed some on the transfer, and also checked the not needed button. Should I play them more, increase their value? Get players interested in em. I am hoping to get rid of em this transfer window, but most likely if I can will move em in the winter transfer window. The only ones people are interested in seem to be the ones who I have no intention of selling. They are the foundations to my team.

6. how many players do you usually have on your senior/reserve squad. I seem to have about 25 or such right now, which i think is too high. I am trying to parse them down, and am thinking of going the transfer route.


Uhm, i think that's it. Otherwise am enjoying the game tremedously. Oh another thing, near the end of my las season, I was approached by Liverpool, and given a decent contract...but the transfer budget was 50 Million, and the player salary was ungodly. I was so tempted to take it, it was an almost certainty by then that i was going to be relegated, and I was so tempted, so so tempted. But i decided against it, since I am trying to build West Bromwhich into a powerhouse in the Premier league. I hope their is a karma or loyalty bonus in the game.

Anyway thanks again, you guys are awesome!

retired_w0lfpack1

1. Feeder club - you can't control who the board thinks an appropriate feeder club are, the best you can do is ask for a feeder, and pick from the list they give you. If you don't currently have one, the board are more likely to pick one in-country, but you should be able to amass multiples.

2. Every new contract requires a new work permit .. so I always try to sign 5-year-deals with players who require a work permit. Best you can do is keep trying .. but if it isn't working out, better to sell him and recoup some of your investment rather than letting him escape on a free.

3. ?? .. Im not sure what's going on there.

4. Buying players: Mental attributes are key, Decisions, Anticipation, Teamwork, Work Rate, for all players, as is Jumping for all players. Other than that, nothing in particular: keep your scouts busy on the search, and see what they unearth!

5. Getting rid of players: Yes, you need to "put them in the shop window" to spark any interest, so to speak. If they're just rotting in your Reserves, you can't sell them for a tenth their value.
- Sending people out 'on loan' can help
- setting 'Not needed by club'
- 'transfer listed'
- explicitly setting the 'asking price' much lower than their "value"
- and repeatedly 'offering to clubs'
are the other steps to take.
6. Squad size: based on budget, really. As an established Premiership club I tend to have about 60-80 players "under contract":
- about 25 "senior" players who will see 10 or more matches in the season: 2 at each position plus 3 jack-of-all-trades.
- about 10-20 "out on loan all season" players.
- about 18 "Reserves", typically five or six players who are too old for my senior side, plus ten-to-twelve 18-20-year olds who didn't find a home on loan, and might see one or two senior matches.
- about 20 "U-18's", usually 15, 16, and 17 years old, as by their 18th I'm either looking to loan 'em out or find a home further up the chain.

Good on you for not taking the Liverpool job - I think your personal satisfaction-from-success will be much higher when you turn WBA into a world contender than it would have been having everything 'handed to you' at Liverpool.

retired_lydia shalaby

right on thanks for the info. I think those folks who i intend on getting rid of will see much more playing time here shortly.

Bout the feeder clubs, guess will have to take on in country, and hope in the future i get another one in the EU so those work permits dont bog me down.

As far as players, thanks for letting me know, i had about 30ish right now, and i only foresee myself really using about 16-18 during the season.

Am torn in terms of of my transfer fee, i think it might be best spent if i get one who i am pretty sure will help out in the premiere league. Ah well, still scouting a bunch of players.

retired_sandyv

For No.3

To get free agents

- search for unattached at any time to sign "true" free agents, ie players without a club

- search expiring contracts to find players who will be out of contract at the end of the season - BEWARE players can only sign "Bosman" deals between English clubs from May onwards. Players from other EU countries can be signed 6 months in advance(ie from Jan 1st).

- you should also be aware that the "contract expiring£ filter will include players whose contract expires at the end of the year, eg Brazilian players.

retired_Merle L. Thomas

Furthermore:

1. I'm not sure if you understand exactly how international feeder clubs work; please forgive me if I'm explaining stuff you already know. The only reason why you'd want a Belgian club is to loan out youngsters from outside of Europe, so they can live there for two years and get co-citizenship with Belgium, after which they don't need a work permit. Belgium is generally considered the "best" country for this because the player only needs to spend two years there. (The same is true of Poland but the reputation of the Polish league is lower generally and players are more likely to refuse to go there.)

As Amaroq said, you have no control over which clubs (if any!) you get offered and it might be several years before the board finds you a decent avoid-work-permits feeder. In the meantime, you might as well just ignore players that can't get a work permit. What it takes to get a work permit is kind of unclear, but international experience is a big factor. Your scouts may give you some hints about whether a player is likely to have his application accepted, possibly only after an appeal.

2. You're probably out of luck. If the guy has significant time left on his original contract, then roll with it and keep trying to get him a new one every few months or so. If he's out of contract then there isn't much you can do.

3. What I do is this: sometime in December, do whatever search you'd normally do to find players that might be interesting. Select the View: Contract Status, and sort on expiry date. Then just look at the players at the top of the list; all the guys who will be out of contract at the end of the season. Local players won't be available for a while, but players in (many) foreign leagues can be offered contracts in January and, if accepted, they'll join you at the end of the season. Pay attention to the compensation! You might have to pay their old team quite a bit-- this depends on their age.

Players on loan will also show up here, but their contract with their "real" team might not be ending. You can look at the Transfer details on their player page to see what the deal is.

4. No easy answers here; it'll take a combination of experience and digging through the Tactics forum. Don't blindly trust your scouts, either: if they find someone interesting, have them scout that player a few more times to get a better report. Try to stick to players that are good enough to play in the level above you, or have the potential to get there reasonably quickly. This is especially important as you're expecting to be promoted soon.

5. This is often difficult and causes problems for a lot of people. You have a player that isn't good enough for your team, so why would other teams at your level want him, and why would he accept a lower salary to play for a team in a lower league? It's not that simple, of course, but the best way to avoid problems is to be very careful who you offer long-term contracts to. Easy to say, hard to do, and not much help if you've just taken over a new club. You'll just have to make do with some unwanted guys until their contracts expire, because nobody else will take them. Loan them out if you can, sell them for zero if you can. (You're not really losing much if you sell someone for nothing: after all, you're rid of their salary, and you aren't using them anyway.) Some players will accept mutual termination, some won't.

6. You'll probably want about 20-22 guys that actually play regularly for your first team. Sixteen isn't enough: injuries will happen. Beyond that, it's up to you. If you don't have a decent youth system built up yet then you don't need to worry too much about the U-18s. I like to sign as many teenage hot prospect types as I can afford; most end up as "investments." Buy 'em for a cheap fixed price, send 'em on loan for a few years and sell them with 40-50% future fees. Heck, you might even keep a few for your own team.


Hope this helps a little bit, and isn't too inaccurate!

retired_lydia shalaby

Wow great answer there...thanks Sifrow and BZL

Oh this response is mainly guided to BZL..

1. Gotcha...well something to build up towards i guess. Will have to ignore teh work permit dealio then. It's like seeing all these yummy candies that you are just drooling over, and you want em, know they will be great, but then you cant get at em. Thanks for explaining more in depth also. Consider me an idiot on these things.

I have been paying attention to the scouts work permit notations and have been avoiding those players.


Well let me ask this, should I just get a feeder club regardless then, or should I wait till i find a quality one or the Belgium one happens.

2. Sucks to lose the guy then. Meh, happens i guess.

3. Thanks for that tip, will have to look for em now.

4. I have been following this one scout who is 20 in ability and 20 in potential. Been using him as a main reference point. But I have also been lookinig at other facts in terms of wanting players...technique being one of the primary items. But also staying away from any mention of injuries.

5. I think what i was going to do was give these low guys more time to play, build up their reputation.

6. Good to know on approximate numbers I should have. Again not familiar what it's like i guess in game, but also in terms of in the real leagues. So having a rough number to guide me is good to know.

retired_Merle L. Thomas

Oh, well, there's no great drawback to having feeder clubs, and you can always reject the board suggestions, so you might as well ask for them. In fact, eventually you will probably want to have several. Local clubs are great for sending your youth players on loan to get them experience, but they'll only be able to take four long-term loans per season, so you'd want several (probably at different levels). You can get "marketing" feeders that do nothing but generate money (often in China or the U.S.) and some clubs that are just linked for the mutual exchange of scouting knowledge. And, of course, the work-permit work-arounds. Some clubs will cost you an annual fee, but it will usually be an insignificant amount.

That's all long-term thinking, though it doesn't hurt to start. You can't add more than one or two a year, and sometimes one of your feeder clubs will cancel their link.


The "approximate numbers" will vary, of course. One way to get an idea is to look at how the actual premiership clubs do it. To take an example out of thin air, Newcastle United's web site lists 29 first-team players. That seems high, but it includes Michael Owen (injured all season), their third keeper and about half a dozen younger guys who might be considered their "hot prospects": Matty Pattison, David Edgar, etc. They're on the bench sometimes but rarely get into games and might be considered as candidates for season-long loans to feeder clubs at around Championship level. There are also a few veteran guys who almost never play; in game terms they'd be rotting in your reserves, I suppose. Their youth team photo for 2007 has eighteen players in it.

On the other hand, they are a pretty big club and not exactly a model of fiscal genius.

Some years you have crazy injuries, some years everyone's healthy. The number that's best for you is something you'll get a feel for eventually. In the meantime it won't hurt to have a few extra players (they might get grumpy but who cares) and you can often get away with being short, too.

retired_lydia shalaby

Cool thanks BZL, guess i will jsut be patient in terms of the feeder club, I am going to keep on asking for one, and i think i will grab one that i think looks decent enough. I have read through enough of the forums to get a general idea of what i am looking for.

Oh also I mispoke in terms of how many first team folks i have. It is close to about 20, with about 16 of them seeing significant gameplay. I am trying to force myself to get into the habit of rotating them every now and then (i think i read about 4 matches) so they get a bit of rest.

Oh, also, i dont mind you stating the obvious (stuff that might be obvious to you), for in all honesty i have no clue how the football world operates. I am only going on the little knowledge i gleaned as a kid playing the game, and also from watching the world cup games.

Ok back to the game..am in the middle of hte summer transfer window, and am determined to upgrade my club with several quality prospects and also a great midfielder (someone who can really help flow the offense through).

Anyway thanks again.

retired_w0lfpack1

bzl - great post, man, KUTGW!

newcastles - "a great midfielder (someone who can really help flow the offense through)."

Definite must: what I'm looking for in a 'playmaker', in order of impostance, is:
- Creativity (ability to 'see' a good pass)
- Decisions
- Passing (ability to 'hit' a good pass)
- Teamwork
- Anticipation
- Technique
- Off the Ball (ability to 'get open')

You might also enjoy my story over in FM-Stories, Sharpening a Rusty Blade. I'm trying to write it in a way that 'teaches' both the game and football-in-general from the perspective of an American moving to England, so it might help in some respects. I mention it because its got a dramatic example of what a difference that creative playmaker can make, amongst other things.

Anyways, keep asking questions as you have, you've been very articulate and well-mannered, so a pleasure to help out.

retired_lydia shalaby

oooh thanks amaroq, just marked em down in my notebook so i can use it. I also read somewhere that in the premiere league you want folks with about 15 in the ratings (i am assuming in the vital stats for the players; depending on position).

will check out your post in a bit also, am still in the summer transfer window. Just got one target for about 1.1 million, am still looking for the others. And also, am locking down my core squad with contracts. I am after this one defense back who i really want, but the team is wavering on it.

I swear this game can be so much fun in terms of the micromanagement.

And thanks for the kind words...good to know that i am not on double secret probation!