gidge

Well, I have been involved in apps wars when it came to 2d graphic apps, and oh yea, big time when it came to 3d apps, but never, I say never, have I been involved in a "browser" app war...

haha, just kidding around.... it's all good folks...

I mean I drive a Hyundai Accent, and a buddy of mine drive's a Honda Civic ... we both manage to get from a to b....

Mark... yea, I know that "back" is backspace... actualy, to be technical... alt/left arrow is back, and alt/right arrow is forward, as default for IE, though yes indeed, someone has thought to bind "backspace as "back" as well.... frikking rocket scientist's those MS programmers were... ? ... yea right eh, LOL

I just wish, like as I can bind/assign most any key to most any command in Wings3d for example, that I could bind Esc key as the "back" key... and maybe F1 as forward... as these keys are on the very left hand side of the ole keyboardand thus my left hand is much more comfy in said position... you know what I mean?

retired_paddza

I believe he's talking about the scrollbars. The "css" used to color scroll bars is based on activeX api's which are an IE only trick. Which is fine with them, I find it annoying. hehe But yes, in other browsers, you will generally not have colored scroll bars. And on mac you won't even have them in IE since it's based on WINDOWS activeX.

I wouldn't be so sure. I've been watching trends online since I started doing web dev in 1993. The trend we're seeing right now with mozilla is the same thing that happened with netscape years ago, and IE after that. Things change. People are becoming more and more informed and big companies are losing some of their hold on the information. More people from my generation are becoming a financial force, and we grew up with computer technology. Mozilla may still have not over taken IE, but don't think that just because it's shipped with windows that it's always going to be on top. Like I said... maybe Microsoft will base their next IE version on the mozilla core. They stole a bunch of core code for window xp and longhorn from open source apps, and their current version of IE is based on code from mosaic in the early 90s... it's not that far fetched an idea.

My point was that developers, who [b[are[/b] very aware of the strengths of web standards and mozilla are starting to code to meet those standards. So if they are coding to standards and IE isn't meeting those standards, something will have to change. Despite all the hype, they haven't updated the rendering engine for IE in years. They add all sorts of toys and security holes...er "features"... but the actual part of the browser that does all the work of making pages display correctly hasn't changed since windows98.

We'll see what happens. Like I said, I want a browser that works. I use IE on my os9 mac... I use Mozilla on my pc and my osx mac. That's what works best, that's what displays websites best. If someone else comes along with a free full featured web browser, I'll give them a shot too. Lord knows I have about 10 web browsers installed anyway!

IE vs. Mozilla has taken the place of mac vs. pc in all the online flame wars these days. People have too much personal believe invested in how they surf the web!!

Rick

I have to agree with MB on this one, as the younger people begin to dominate the internet market the choice of what browser to use will depend on which one does the best job, no which one is shipped with the OS. I use IE, Firefox and Opera as tools when designing web pages to make sure all my stuff will show equally in all browsers. It doesn't, but you must adjust for a happy medium right now.

More and more designers are turning to CSS for style and this is where the main differences are. CSS code does not display exactly the same in all browswers and IE is the worst offender. I am sure that the Microsoft people are aware of this and expect to see a new IE in the near future.

Bacardi

Yes, SCROLL bars.
Of course.
Off course!!!

btw: something tht's free cannot be stolen. Open source has been an imspiration to many. Just think of how Linux...

gidge

so there I am, doing up a new webpage design for moi, since I have not done so in a while now... anyways, I preview with IE, and then again, and it simply refreshes the new preview... I preview with mozilla, and low and behold it starts a new window with every preview... ouch... is there any way to prevent this from happening, and just get it so as to refresh?

retired_paddza

I'd say taking open source code and claiming that you wrote it from scratch and then saying "we're going to put open source development out of business with our new product" is about as close as you can get to stealing something free.

There is a setting in the preferences that changes that I believe, but I can't remember because I immediately install the "tabbrowser extension" the moment I install FireFox. Check your extended preferences by typing "about:config" (sans quotes) into the location bar. There are TONS of preferences that aren't in the GUI.

gidge

hey thanks for the info MB, I will certainly have a closer look [righton]

Blinky2004

Just wanted you guys using Opera to know that... in the Prefs, there's an option to allow the browser's scrollbars to be effected by CSS -- like i've done on this site/forum.

Just in case that extra little thing is worth anything.

Personally... i like it. I think it adds to a site's look/feel. And it's not like it's the header section of the browser. It doesn't mess up your browser at all. In fact, it's pretty non-intrusive really. [excited]

retired_paddza

From a design standpoint, I agree with you Mark. I wasn't criticizing you in any way. It's just me. I'm big on my interface not changing unless I'm the one that does the changing. I like it to stay out of the way and be easily identifiable exactly the same all the time. The more I have to look for my interface or toolsets, the more time I waste not doing what I SHOULD be doing. This is the same reason I don't move my palettes all over the place in Adobe products and learn keyboard shortcuts instead.

Always take what I say with a grain of salt.

Bacardi

Well, about that being close to stealing: I didn't know this as I hardly ever follow big companies' silly behaviour when it comes to making even more money.. But If they claim that code as being their own, then indeed you're more than right.

Me I like the overall design of a site, and scrollbars (I wrote it a hiundred times...DOH nav bars...how COULD I !!!) are part of that..
I browsed at full monitor view, they're gret, but when the brwoser's head section is shown, the grey bars go well with it.
Yet I prefer full screen.

I knew Opera can do this as it was one of my main complaints it can't do it always. For example: it doesn't work with the code Mark sent me. Or it may only work when the page is uploaded to a real server, who knows? Anyway: I miss this option in Mozilla.

I also don't care when a specific effect can only be seen in a specific browser as anyone's free to use that browser or not. Not for main code (yet I don't care about v3 browsers and NN4 anymore, which is a personal choice) and necessary links etc, but for extra's. Like, in IE the background not moving when the text that's on top can be scrolled. This can be very movie like. (Space, that final frontier you know...)