Bacardi

Now I have got a question:

I know the code to change the colour of a scrollbar with css
example: (changed < and > into ( and ) to avoid problems)

(style type="scroll/css")
BODY { SCROLLBAR-BASE-COLOR: myhexacolour1;
SCROLLBAR-BASE-COLOR: myhexacolour2;
}
(/style)

but I don't exactly see how I can add this to a page.
Yes, I can do it experimentally, but I love to have some theory behind it.

Is it added with a custom class?
I cannot see it as a redefinition of an html tag...

who knows?

A second question:
I am creating with a simple frameset, nl. one on top, and one below it. Nowin both, I have a table with a fixed width. The top/navbar has a fixed height, the bottom one is set to relative.
Now, my table exceeds inevitably the height it can have on a monitor, so I need a scrollbar. Result: my table, set to "center" is set to the center of the width of the page minus that scrollbar and it does not align anymore.
I tried to look at css for this, but no deal.

Anyone knows a solution? This must be a common problem. I'm shure of that. And as it's been nearly a year since I did anything with sites, I must overlook something basic.

Blinky2004

Erik as to your 1st question... here's a more complete codeset for the "custom scrollbar":

<style type="text/css">
<!--
body {
scrollbar-arrow-color:#ffffcc;
scrollbar-track-color:#0066ff;
scrollbar-face-color:#6699ff;

scrollbar-highlight-color:#0033cc;
scrollbar-3dlight-color:#3399ff;

scrollbar-shadow-color:#0033cc;
scrollbar-darkshadow-color:#003399; }
-->
</style>

Put this code inside the HEAD tags, anywhere.

As to your 2nd question... [stuned] I'm not sure i follow what the exact problem is. Do you have either a visual or html example we could look at? :B

Bacardi

Thanks.

The second problem is simple (if necessary, I can upload an example in some four hours.

But it's this:

Your screen is, say 1024 wide.
So when you set a table to "center", the centre of the table is at 512/513.
Now when you have to add a scrollbar, pixels are taken off of your screen width as the scrollbar takes pixels for itself.
So when set your table to "center", your table center moves the width of the scrollbar so the whole table is placed 9 pixels to the left. Compared to another table above it that has no scrollbar, this is ugly and unwanted.

Theoretically, this is not so much of a problem. I can either add a scroll with Java, or make one table 18 pixels wider so that it adjusts on the right-hand side with the other one, add a column of 18 pixels on the left-hand side and fill the rest with a nested table of the width I want.
But I feel there should be an easier solution as I'm certainly not the first one to meet this aligning issue.

What I want is, visually speaking, a rectangle ( table if you prefer) with a top part as navbar, and a bottom part for content. Yet because of that scrollbar, the bottom part moves nine pixels to the left instead of aligning perfectly.


As for the answer to the first question: ok, that's the code, but is this a Custom class or? See, custom classes have to be linked to text, while html changers (my expression) change things on the whole page if that page is linked to them. And I want to background information.

Anyways: thanks for this additional code! Gives even more options.

Bacardi

Right.

1/ So, to come back to question one: if I add this to the header of the page (not the frameset) it works. Of course, I didn't doubt about that. But the question is now that I will have to add this to each page that might scroll, meaning everything but the navbar. I can make copies (my favourite technique) but for other css things, I create external style sheets, and link to these. Now the question remains: can I do this, and is it a custom class or??? Also, page per page does not allow for sitewise changes.

2/ Here is the example. Originally it's larger of course (no more NN4 or 800 wide for me!), but you can clearly see how the table, coloured in lighter grey, on the bottom frame (darker grey as background) has been moved to the left by adding that scrollbar. The blue line at the left hand side of the table/light grey should be coinciding with the red line. Difference 9 pixels.
Besides: you also see it on the forum here: the table is in centered on the page width minus the scrollbar.
verify for yourself.
see attached image for my problem.

suppose nested tables are the solution. Grrrr...I hate this!

Question number three: many webbots nowadays have built-in OCR, so loading an e-mail adress on a gif and have people copy it doesn't free you from spam with 100% certainty.
Also adding any extra text doesn't help as they recognise for exapmle "nospam" and other add-ons.
Better is to use javascript as that is not yet decodable.

anyone heard about this?
I don't want to receive any spam on a new adress I'll be creating especially for my site.

thanks

Bacardi

Right.
I solved the alignment issue by adding another 18 pixels to the table which made it align on the right. On the left I created a column of 18 pixels and as there is no fill and no border, the table is invisible. In the rest of the table's space, and perfectly aligned with the topnav (hehe) I created a nested table. And this I filled with my lughtgrey background image.
Not the most elegant solution perhaps, but it works.

Up to now, I'm happy with the result (no I don't show anything yet!) and it was worth it brooding on it for more than six months.

Blinky2004

hehehe sounds like quite a html adventure you're on there Erik! [bustagut]

As to the CSS question... yes, you can throw the custom scrollbar code into an external file. The code belongs to the body element, so no, it's not a custom tag of any kind.

As to your table issues, glad ya worked through it. I have to say though Erik that if you were to ask my opinion on the whole frames thing... i'd advise against it. It's not only antiquated, it's a nuisance and more trouble than it's worth. Plus... it's not a user freindly way to design.

Far greater things now can be accomplished through other means, like CSS, Dhtml, Php, Asp, SSI, etc... If you want to make your site more ergonomic and srtreamlined, i'd advise looking into these other options.

Bacardi

Thanks for the advise. Must say I was hoping for a more elegant solution than nested tables.
I'll certainly look into these options, but I don't have the time to start studying a new topic as there's still a lot standing in the queu. (btw: did you get the mail with that review?).
I don't care anymore about really older stuff like NN4 problems (NN4 has no problems: it simply is a problem), people not being able to view frames, javascripts, flash, layers etc.. What I do care about is minimal download time as many people still have 56K modems.

What I want is a navbar that stays in place and on which are all the major sections. Each of these opens with a main page and a set of links on a second level that varies per section, but that doesn't change with every page. I thought frames was a good way to do these. AZgreed, they existed some four years ago so they are old and outdated, but all browsers (except some antique ones) can now safely interpret them.

On a third level come thumbs or basic info, and the "real" info opens on separate pages (I have some tricks in the back of my mind for these...)

as for the javascript trick to confuse webbots: you heard about this? On your page it simply reads somethings like (no brackets of course) clickhere@myemail.org . When people click on it, clickhere is changed into your name and myemail in your domain. This new, real link is opened in a new page and people can click on it to open their e-mail client. See, as the real names aren't displayed but are hidden in the java code and can only be opened if the javascript is activated by clicking, webbots cannot get your e-mail adress. For the time being.
Shocking that they can already use ocr now to interpret gifs just for adding your e-mail adress to their spamlist!

I say: it's the government's secret services that are behind all this. The freedom and anarchy of the Internet has to be broken and brought under control. Big Brother.
8[

Blinky2004

Yes i have a script also that scrambles your email code so it's 100% unreadable. I have another simpler javascript one too that works pretty well. So yah... i've heard of this 'trick'.

As for your menu issue... that's very easily solvable without using frames Erik. All you have to do is use a PHP or ASP file insert code snippet. And the insert snippet leads to a file, text or html, that contains the html code for your menus. As well you could do this for all of the page content if you want to.

It's mostly used for either repetitive content, like menus, or dynamic content. It'll work just fine for your basic purpose though and i'd recommend you using this method rather than resorting to frames. You'll save yourself alot of work and confusion down the road.

If you need to know specifics just let me know. It's very simple overall. In fact, i use it for all of the menus found within my pages; all over the site. One file to edit/modify when needed.

Keep in mind too Erik that when placed within your page's layout, the menu will render in the same place every time. So using a frame just for that is a tad overkill.

Anywho...

Bacardi

To be honest, I can't even spend six hours on learning something new. So if I can do it like that, it's ok. If not, it'll have to be the old way. I need this thing finished by end of June as a book will be coming out, and I am basically and by conviction a painter. I already spend too much time on things that hinder my own creative work.
I let this site fall asleep, don't remember how I structured it and I now face hundreds of pages that have to be constructed, some indeed in groups, but at the end they're all individual.
So if this is really only a few clicks, then I'll try. If it's more, it'll have to wait for a next version. But I prefer not to think about that one.

btw: these e-mail java's do interest me a lot.

Blinky2004

Ok well Erik PM or email me the details on your site and i'll see if i can make the process very clear to you. Honestly though, it's a very simple process. And it WILL save you some time overall.