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Tactics & Training Tips

It's no use having a squad full of star players without a decent way for them to play their football.


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Old 10-05-2007, 10:38 PM   Sheffield United Project FM08 Post #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Golden_Team:
becouse i don`t have golden demo yet, i have one question: barows on FBs still works?

sorry for eng.
Yes but theres not much need for them on 08
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Old 10-05-2007, 10:50 PM   Sheffield United Project FM08 Post #52
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thanx cleon one more thing

what is yours instruction for FBs?
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Old 10-05-2007, 10:50 PM   Sheffield United Project FM08 Post #53
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I'll leave it to the pros like Cleon to comment on the rights and wrongs of your analysis. This sort of analysis can be really really useful but it might be best to leave it until the full game + patch is released.

Ignoring the fact that some instructions might have slightly different effects from demo to full release + patch, there are some well documented issues that have been logged by users and the boys at SI. Take a look at the bugs forum generally, and here if you fancy checking out a few problems that I listed.

As you can see from that link, I was assured that these will mostly be addressed in the patch so it may well be the case that some of the problems you are having/seemingly illogical gameplay generally may be eradicated by the patch, leaving you/us to then concentrate on the actual points at hand. Obviously this doesn't help people who are wanting success on the demo, but it just seems a bit silly to spend lots of time an effort on points that may well become moot in about a months time, which is most likely why Cleon for example is going to wait for the patched game before he starts the Sheffield United Project proper.
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:08 PM   Sheffield United Project FM08 Post #54
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away match against R.Madrid, what a game to analyze!

scout reports Real plays a 4-4-1-1 .

Schuster likes his team to play possession football, they get the ball down and play it
then I should play normal mentality and possession too, so they won't have the ball, right?

they play a strong and organaized defence. anything i can do about that?

their midfield is good on the ball and can create chances.
close down midfielders? or hard tackle them? suggestions?

important to use fast defenders or deep D-line as they use pacey strikers.
deep D-line? or defensive mentality? again, i dont know :*(

danger man : ruud van nistelrooy
close down and show weaker foot?

im heading to this match with a great fear :/
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:24 PM   Sheffield United Project FM08 Post #55
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the Oppo ins i gave were:
close down on all of the 3 AMs:
AMC(Raul) - close down + weaker foot.
AML(Marcelo) - close down.
AMR(Robben) - close down + weaker foot.
ST(RVN) - tight marking + close down.
10 mins in the game so far:
a key pass from riquelme to falcao turned down by metzelder.

any high ball forward is getting owned by their DCs.
Long range effort from Raul, Barbosa saved the day as it was really strong one.

they're giving me a really hard time, possession is 60%-40% in their favour, 4 shots out of 4 on target. im setting my fbs to mixed fwr and tick tight marking to deny them the ball, im also switching to short passing high tempo game as slow and short havn't worked so far.
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:32 PM   Sheffield United Project FM08 Post #56
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changes effecting immidietly, by using no playmaker and playing fast tempo short passing, my team finds more space, and right away fernandez given a chance after a move started by riquelme which now set as free role with:
FWR - rare
RWB - mixed
long shots + TTB - often
cross - rare.

2 mins after riquelme plays a great ball to nihat's feet and he manages to miss from inside the box.
could be that playing without a playmaker ticked, but free role for riquelme and only tight marking is working geniously better?

FBs get often FWR now, let the games begin.
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:36 PM   Sheffield United Project FM08 Post #57
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their wingers giving me hard time, im down 0-1 as robben cross a ball and guti comes from deep midfield to head it from inside the box, cleon, im desperate for your analyze to whats going on.
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:42 PM   Sheffield United Project FM08 Post #58
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ONE MORE LONG POST (This is the last one I promise).

I reloaded the save to play the game again and made the following changes:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> Normal mentality instead of defensive
<LI> Tight mark, close down often on both Doyle and Alonso
<LI> High Creative Freedom and Free Role for Fabregas
<LI> Lehman set to long kicks to Adebayor from the start
<LI> Tackling normal for the FBs instead of hard (so only Gilberto is on hard)
</UL>

They are getting way more chances. Either Doyle is getting the ball and dribbling down the wing and making crosses or Lita, or a midfielder or one of the strikers is running onto through balls.

-----
At 13 minutes in, I've had 0 shots and they've had 2(0). Possession is 50-50 and we've both completed 58% of our passes. They've won 88% of their headers and I've won 25%.

-----
At 19:24 they play a long ball to Lita's feet. He turns and hits a streaking Alonso who is running a diagnol across the box. Alonso takes the through ball and fires into goal. 1-0 Reading.

I've managed only one long shot by van Persie from outside the box (with a defender all over him), which the GK easily stopped.

So do I go more offensive or more defensive?

I do remember that last year Cleon went defensive with Shef in this situation in his first match of his 07 project but I don't feel like Reading is overly aggressive so I am unsure defensive would work, especially after the last match.

I decide to go more offensive and raise mentality to attacking. I immediately get a through ball to van Persie, who misses the shot. It is the 23rd minute and I've got my second shot on goal.

With mentality at attacking, my FBs are drifting up close to the edge of the box now.

In the 21st minute they sub Alonso off just like the last game. Why? Doyle is up front now with Sno coming on at MR.

------
Reading has a dangerous counter (long pass, lead pass, only the GK between them and the net).

This aggressive mentality has even more space for them than normal so I'm a little nervous.

We are probing down the wings and trying balls to the top of the box. Its the 33rd minute and I'm now at 4 shots (still just the 1 on target, which means no shots on target since I went aggressive). Possession is at 56% for me now though with 63% passing success.

Reading is now at 6(3) shots and 55% passing. That said, they are dangerous on the counter so I'm still worried about this approach. I'll stay with this and look for a breakthrough.

-----
Reading has another easy counter that they blow at 33:67.

-----
In the 36th minute, a long pass from their GK is headed by Clichy to van Persie. van Persie dribbles up the left half of center before feeding a nice pass to a streaking Rosicky who was coming from the wing towards the upper left corner of the box. Rosicky one times it back to van Persie just inside the left center part of the box who one times a shot past the GK. 1-1.

Again, not what I'd call a direct passing based goal but the aggressive change seems to have worked.

----------
So should I stay aggressive and risk the counter or go back to normal? I wasn't doing much on normal and they scored so perhaps its better to stay aggressive and create chances. No change for now.

-----
I'm really worried about the counter but I'm liking the aggressive mentality. I decide to put Gilberto at the DM slot again and this time move Fabregas to AM.

-----
Nothing more comes up and it is Half time with the score 1-1.

Reading with 9(4) shots and me with 7(3) shots. Most of those shots for both teams came after I went aggressive.

Arsenal with 54% of the possession tells me the aggressive mentality is helping me control the ball.

only 55% passes completed for Reading (when they don't have a counter, they can't make good passes) while 62% for Arsenal.

Reading has completed 50% of their crosses while Arsenal only 30%.

Reading with 50% tackling to Arsenal's 100%.

Heading is at 57% for Reading and 57% for Arsenal (better than last game).

Looking at my individual stats a little closer I see:

Lehman is 5-11 on passes. That's a better percentage than last time but still not great. Adebyar is 6 for 11 on headers - also better but that continues to worry me as a good starting point of attack.

Clichy and Gallas have terrible passing stats at 10(4) and 9(4) respectively. These are their long direct passes (as I instructed) that are failing on the other end so I guess this is okay.

For the second half, I will stay aggressive and see if Gilberto at DM neutralizes the counter.

--------
Long balls to Doyle who turns and looks for Lita is their primary attack coming out of the break.

I also notice that one of the two FBs is coming forward now. They are clearly a little more aggressive.

They have a bit more success at passing as they start to use shorter passes occasionally. This is more than in the first half but they are still primarily playing direct to Doyle.

------
They have a sweet counter at 52 minutes, which Lehmann makes a great save on. Clearly even with Gilberto at DM, the aggressive mentality is leaving me exposed.

------
Long balls to Adebayor are hit or miss but they are not developing into many opportunities for me.

It is the 56th minute and I've only had 1 shot, which was off target since the break.

------
In the 58th minute, I get a nice counter resulting in a free kick. Rosicky hits it off the crossbar and it falls to Hleb who buries it. 2-1 Arsenal.

I go back to normal mentality and keep Gilberto at DM.

------
Instant success. I immediately get a counter opportunity as Adebayor takes a long kick and heads it down to van Persi, who in turn feeds a streaking Fabregas with a through ball. He takes it just inside the middle of the box and bends it around the GK. 3-1 Arsenal.

I go defensive mentality now.

------
69th minute. They've begun to pressure me but they are still not committing both fullbacks.

I sub on Edwardo for a tired Rosicky and Senderos for a tired Toure.

-----
77th minute. They are bringing both fullbacks now but still playing 4-4-2 with short fwd arrows.

I instruct my Wingers to man mark their FBs.

-----
88th minute. I'm soaking up pressure pretty well, cutting off passes and offering the occasional counter attack threat. I'm now up to 14(6) shots, which means 7(3) in the second half.

The biggest threat seems to be when my long balls are won by Reading, and they spring into attack.

------
It ends 3-1 Arsenal.
Reading has 16(9) shots total with 5(5) in the second half but no goals.
Arsenal 17(8) with 10(5) coming in second half.

Possession is won by Arsenal with 53%. We also win the passing % game with 64 to 62.

Crossing is 33% for Reading and 26% Arsenal while tackling is 64% Reading 85% Arsenal.

Headers is 57% to 52%.

Fabregas, who was given the high creativity and free role was man of the match with 13 of 23 passes, (3 key) and a goal.

Gilberto was 6 for 7 on tackles and led all players in that area.

===================
So what happened? Well going normal to start may have cost me a goal, but going aggressive got me back into the game.

I really was afraid of the counte when I went aggressive and moving Gilberto to DM instead of having a flat 4-4-2 helped a lot.

Clearly playing more aggressivess won the match, but it did feel dangerous at times.

The direct game was better before we went up 2-1 but not for any reason I could tell.

After we went up, their aggression was opening holes and the direct balls were more successful, leading to that sweet third goal.

Still, the 5 shots, all on target by Reading in the second half could have gone another way. Did I get the 2nd goal the right away and was there anything else I should have done beyond going defensive mentality when I went up 2-1?


Thanks for the suggestions on where I went wrong. Making those changes all panned out.
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:47 PM   Sheffield United Project FM08 Post #59
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Cleon, just noticed something regarding the "5 star training " requirements as updated for FM2008 in the FAQ section at the top. Are the requirements for top training in Ball Control and Shooting supposed to be exactly the same (i.e. Technique and Tactical for both)? It's just that whilst the combination of technique and tactical gives me top training in ball control, it doesn't in shooting, which made me think there might be some sort of mistake here regarding this. Hopefully what I wrote makes sense. Cheers.
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Old 10-06-2007, 12:24 AM   Sheffield United Project FM08 Post #60
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Match over, 5-3 in their favour.
by watching the R.madrid stats and by watching the full game i noticed gaps when Real crossed from deep, my inside box DCs couldnt cover the shots of guti twice, and van nistelroy's headers twice, eventhough im using cygan ( 190 cms, high marking and heading ) and gonzalo rodriguez .

i also couldnt cover my flanks from their wingers, aswell as their fullbacks caused me problems with heinze ast to guti and killing the game from 3-2 to 4-2.

what should i do nextime? i think i found the way i should attack by setting tight marking, counter attack and short passing for everyone except wingers, which play mixed.

match stats:
http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=recentpq2.jpg

Cleon, its all yours now
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