retired_elpata

Don't worry about it :cool:

retired_chatter17

I've often been confused about this point. My main question is:

Should one play a style that allows an opponent to do what they want, or play a style that doesn't?

Example:

If a team wants to sit back and counter attack, won't committing players forward and playing a slow possession game play to their hand as they can soak up the pressure and then counter attack against an opponent who is way up the pitch?

The alternative would be to play a defensive direct game that while harder to break down due to them sitting back, kills their chances of having success with their own direct game.

Another example:

If an opponent wanted to play attacking possession, wouldn't sitting back and counter attacking allow them to play their style?

The other option would be to be equally aggressive, closing down often and pushing forward yourself.

Very interested to get people's thoughts on this point.

retired_elpata

I've often been confused about this point. My main question is:

Should one play a style that allows an opponent to do what they want, or play a style that doesn't?

Example:

If a team wants to sit back and counter attack, won't committing players forward and playing a slow possession game play to their hand as they can soak up the pressure and then counter attack against an opponent who is way up the pitch?

The alternative would be to play a defensive direct game that while harder to break down due to them sitting back, kills their chances of having success with their own direct game.

Another example:

If an opponent wanted to play attacking possession, wouldn't sitting back and counter attacking allow them to play their style?

The other option would be to be equally aggressive, closing down often and pushing forward yourself.

Very interested to get people's thoughts on this point. </BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right, you can do it either way though its just which you find more effective for your team. Personally I find playing the opposite of the opposition helps me, unless I am a strong team then I force them to adapt to me.

For example;

If they play attacking then I know there going to give a lot of possession away and I should be able to get lots of space and get in behind them. So I'd go counter attacking here and soak up the pressure and hit them on the break.

Obviously you can't do that if your not confident your defence wont hold out though. But I am more than happy with how my back line normally plays and I am confident they can keep teams at bay.

You can match them strategy for strategy if you wish, but then it will more than likely come down to who has the better players on the day. Id only try and match them if I was a team of equals.

retired_chatter17

Let's see if am understanding my opponent correctly.

I'm Arsenal (with no transfers) away to Reading. This is the 08 demo.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> Reading play a high tempo 4-4-2 formation and look to get the ball into wide positions whenever possible. If they like to play it wide, then I need to play a wider formation so they don't run around my FBs. So go wide for width.

<LI> Pitch is on the short side, which will cause a lot of congestion, particularly in the middle of the pitch. Players will have to work hard in order to find space. Not sure what this means yet as far as tweaks. I assume it means direct balls will be harder and going wide may not work that well offensively. I'm very unsure of this though.

<LI> Reading like to play a direct style of football and we should look to stop them moving the ball quickly to their front line. So I should think about closing down often on their wingers and strikers and I shouldn't over commit my FB or CD too far up the pitch.

<LI> Finally, it will be important to defend deep or use fast defenders as their attacking pace may cause problems. Play a defensive line deep and keep the FB back. I.E. play a defensive mentality.

<LI> Reading will look to use the aerial power of striker Kevin Doyle and we should look to cut off the supply to him. tight mark and close down often on Doyle. If he plays as a MR, consider man marking with my Left FB.
</UL>

I decide to play my flat 4-4-2 defensive with a deep back line and wide, mixed, direct passing.

Clichy and Sagna are told to run forward rarely and run with ball rarely from their FB positions.

I make Adebayor a target man with forward runs to rare, hold the ball and try through balls often.

Gilberto is told to rarely run forward while Fabregas is told to run forward often.

Rosicky and Hleb get short forward arrows and told to run forward often (to help with my direct style counter attack).

van Persie gets run forward sometimes.

In opponent instructions, I choose always to tight mark and close down Kevin Doyle (who is at MR to start the match).

I expect that they are going to try to push the ball up quickly and my back forward will be positioned to close down on those long balls and boot it up field, either to the streaking wingers, to van Persie to run onto, or to Adebayor's head.

So did I analyze this right? And if not, where did I go wrong?

retired_elpata

Or you can just ask your wingers to mark there wingers. Then they will be forced out wide to track them.

This is a good time to try and give a creative player a lot of creative freedom. This will allow him to find and create his own space.

Id pretty much do what you said here but via the opposition instructions.

As you are Arsenal id have played normal mentality for 20 minutes and kept an eye on things. If you was doing okay after 20 mins stick with it a bit longer and so on. If not change to defensive or more attacking if needed.

Spot on :thup:

Id have stayed normal like I mentioned above. If you feel that Reading are coming onto you strong it might be a good idea to counter attack them, especially with the quality you have.

retired_uagirl12

You probably did analyze it right. Doyle seems to be their main threat and he does win a lot in the air (personal experience from signing him). Your fullbacks should close down their wingers to stop supply. I always thought the only way to play someone like Duncan Ferguson was not to mark to tight and mark the space and pick up the knock-ons as he won everything in the air. I personally wouldn't mark Doyle too tight and try to mark the space around where the flick-ons go.

Dunno if that makes any sense but you know!

retired_NLeniewska

With a player like Doyle, who is good in the air and pretty quick.

I would:

Tight mark him if my my DC was good in the air, so that my DC should easily deal with the aerial threat he poses, plus he is tight marked so my DC should get a tackle in before Doyle can turn and utilise his pace.

If on the other hand my DC is quick, then I would close down Doyle as he should be able to recover if Doyle manages to get past him.

So if any striker is fast I will tightly mark them, allowing them no space.
If the forward is good in the air I would close down always.

If the forward is an allrounder though like Doyle you should look to use your Defenders attributes to consider how to shackle the striker. (All done via Opp. Instructions BTW)

retired_chatter17

LONG POST HERE.

Sorry but I am trying to externalize how I read the game to figure out if I'm doing it correctly . Please let me know where you see me going wrong in my analysis.

Reading the game
----------------

Shorey dribbles up the left edge and loses possession. The ball rolls back to their GK.

GK long kicks it to the Striker Alonso (good header). Toure is on him tight and gets called with a foul. Free kick Reading.

Shorey takes the free kick and it goes towards Alonso just in the box. I'm starting to think Alonso is set up as a target man. Should I go into opponent settings in order to tight mark and close down often? My DCs are already set as man marking, closing down often, tight mark so maybe I don't need to?

I head it away, get possession and try a long kick down the right flank towards a streaking Hleb. I overshoot him and it goes out of bounds.

Shorey tosses it in to Conway down the right side, who plays a short pass to Alonso. Alonso is clearly playing deep for a striker.

Alonso instantly fires it to Lita (the other striker) with Toure on him.

Fae, their central midfielder runs toward the box and Lita plays a short pass to him. Gallas charges him down, gets the ball away and it rolls back to Lehman, who plays a long kick to van Pesie's head.

The ball rolls away and Reading's defense takes it and immediately fires a ball to Alonso's head. I'm pretty sure he's a target man now.

The ball is knocked way back to Reading's side. They play another long ball, this time to Doyle down the right wing. It goes by him and out the back. Free kick Arsenal.

-------------------
So what do I know at this point? They are mostly playing direct passing as I thought. Alonso is getting a lot of passes his way, which I didn't know coming in. So I think I need to set his close down and tight marking as always.

So far I've had almost zero possession, mostly knocking the ball away. My two attempts at my direct passing game was a ball that missed Hleb down the wing and one to van Persie's head, which was lost.

I decide to tell Lehman to long kick it to Adebayor and I set Alonso's close down and tight marking as always.

-------------------
Play continues. I notice that the reading FBs don't really cross into my half of the pitch. Does this mean they are not playing quite as aggressive as I thought, and that my direct passing game will suffer due to them having 4 defenders in good position?

it is now 11:05 into the match and I've had 0 shots, 42% possession 55% passes completed. They have 2 shots (1 on target). Those shots came from a long shot by Alonso, and a header by Lita off of a cross by Doyle after he dribbled around my FB.

Out of the blue, a long ball to Alonso is headed by Toure over to Sagna on the right side. He passes it short to Fabregas who is in space. Fabregas turns and plays it short to Hleb. Hleb dribbles up the right wing a bit and feeds it to Adebayor, who is in space about 35 yards out. Adbeyar turns and fires a through ball, which van Persie runs onto and buries. 1-0 Arsenal.

So this wasn't my direct passing instructions at all. It was a quick series of short passes. Good result but not how I expected to get it.

-------------------
What changes do I notice after the goal? Shorey is now coming forward from the LB position. Their other FB is staying at midfield so I assume they are now on "sometimes" instead of "rarely" for forward runs.

Should I think about man marking their FB with my wingers?

Alonso has been subbed off. Doyle is now the striking parter for Lita and Sno is the new MR. No injury or anything so I don't know why they subbed him.

Lita is playing deeper and Doyle is playing further up the pitch.

I'm already tight marking and closing down Doyle often so no changes to make as far as I can tell.

------------------
Reading is playing short passes instead of the deep ball. Should I close down less often to lure them into my half?

A lot of short passes are going to Lita, who has a lot of space. He's playing really deep, and neither of my DCs are going up that far. However, Gilberto is playing further up the pitch. I need to stop Lita having so much space. So I move Gilberto to DM and Fabregas to the middle of center.

A second long pass results in a Free kick near the box. I'm going to take my FB off of hard tackling and put on Medium. The central defenders are already on medium.

------------------
The FBs are now both moving up. Also, Convey is running aggressively with the ball up the left wing. I man mark wingers in my FB's settings and I man mark the FB in my winger's settings. I feel like they are very aggressive right now.

-------------------
Most attacks are starting with a long pass to Doyle's head. I'm mostly denying these headers and they are going out of bounds or to me. But he's winning a few and knocking them back to his central mid fielders.

--------------------
Clichy blows a tackle and Sno runs quickly down the right flank. But Gilberto is over to break it up. He was deeper due to moving to the DM position.

Offensively we look close to having a counter but haven't had the breakthrough yet. I'm happy at this point with the attacking options.

--------------------
I'm tightly marking the wingers and FB now. they are trying direct passing through the middle.

--------------------
I'm doing NOTHING offensively. Long balls from Lehman are falling to Reading and long balls during the run of play are going out of bounds or their defense is easily dealing with it.

Maybe I'm too defensive and it was a mistake to get my wingers tightly marking their FBs? Maybe when I put Gilberto at DM, i should have made Fabregas AM instead of CM?

---------------------
A COMPLETE GAFFE. Lehman (who has been instructed to do long kicks to Adebayor) plays a ball that HITS LITA in the head and falls to his feet!!! Lita easily slots it past Lehman who is way off his line.

---------------------
Despite being all tied again, their FBs are playing up. So they are staying aggressive offensively. I don't change anything at this point.

---------------------
Its half time.

Stats are:
Reading with 3 shots on goal based on 6 attempts. 51% possession and 65% passing completions. 25% crossing completion and 65% headers won.

This makes me feel good about my defensive set up. They aren't dominating possession (even given their direct style) and they've only had a few changes on goal.

Arsenal has 1 shot on goal based on 3 attempts. 49% possession and 56% passing completion with 33% crossing completion and only 39% headers won.

I'm clearly not winning many balls in the air and this is hurting my direct style offense.

Lehman is only 2 for 14 on passes!!! So clearly my long kicks to Adebayor is not working. Hleb is the only other stand out for poor passing with 5 of 12.

I decide to un-tick use target man and take Adebayor out of the target man list. I set him forward runs mixed and run with ball sometimes (like Van Persie) and turn off hold up ball. I'm going to try and see if this results in more running onto balls.

-----------------
We seems to be knocking down their long balls, feeding it to Fabregas or trying long kicks. When Fabregas gets it, he's either trying to slot to a striker or put it down the edge for a winger to run on. None of it is resulting in much though. Either the defenders take away the ball or we pass too hard and it goes out of bounds.

-------------------
We're now in minute 65.

I noticed that they've dropped both central midfielders to defensive midfield and their wingers don't have forward arrows. I think they are going defensive so I might want to raise my mentality to normal or even a little aggressive.

I set it at 11 (normal) to start.

I also bring on Edwardo and Walcott in place of Rosicky and Hleb as I want fresh legs down the wings.

-------------------
Offensively, they are getting the ball to Doyle who is dropping deep. He's trying to dribble slowly up the pitch. At most they bring forward one of the mid fielders and one of the wingers. Everyone else is staying back.

I haven't done anything offensively and we're in the 73rd minute so I decide to attacking in mentality. Maybe I need to consider switching to a short slow passing game at this point and star encouraging my FB to run forward? I'll wait a bit before doing that.

-------------------
76th minute now and I haven't had a shot (nor have they). I do move Gilberto back to central midfield although no change to settings otherwise.

--------------------
80th minute. I still haven't got a shot on goal. They are keeping a ton back and its just too clogged. They are doing nothing offensively. I decide it is time to go to short narrow attacking football and bring up the FBs. They get forward run often and run with ball sometimes. I drop Gilberto back into defense so I can have 3 defending Doyle and Lita. Lastly, I push the forward arrows for the wingers all the way up and have them cross from byline.

----------------------
Reading immediately gets a long ball out that Doyle runs onto and just misses scoring with as Gallas changes behind him.

---------------------
I take note here that Lehman is totally ignoring my instructions to have defenders collect.

---------------------
I note that I'm now pushing aggressively up the wings and crossing the ball in but I can't find the winner.

Their attempts to counter with the long balls to Doyle who is dribbling or feeding Lita are mostly failing thanks to the two center backs and Gilberto.

---------------------
Try as I might, I never find a winner. I end the game with 3(1) shots in the second half for 6(2) total.


=================


So what did I do right and wrong?

Once they took Alonso off, they used Lita briefly before switching over to Doyle as their main option to start off attacks. I think I mostly controlled him although he completed 10 of 12 headers but only 12 of 26 passes.

I feel like defensively I shut down most of their attack.

Offensively, the direct passing game didn't really work. I seem to have enough space to run onto balls, and van Persie was 2 of 11 on headers while Adebayor was 6 of 19. Silva was 0 of 10 while Hleb was 4 of 8.

So a lot of long passes to people's heads resulted in balls being lost.

Should I have gone to short passing sooner? Would that have cost me defensively as they played long balls to Doyle?



Well maybe I didn't get aggressive enough? Should I have started on normal mentality instead of defensive?

retired_elpata

I don't think I will have time to reply to this tonight. But I will answer it tomorrow

retired_Hurky

becouse i don`t have golden demo yet, i have one question: barows on FBs still works?

sorry for eng.